Would it possible to make OR using an existing lava shader?

Hey,
I've released the initial version of OBGE - Liquid Water Nehrim Patch's conversion for OR:
https://www.nexusmods.com/nehrim/mods/46

However, as of playing around with the lava, I realized that if OR is turned off, Nehrim seems to have its own Lava shader (as any other aspect which is controlled by OR stopped working properly).

Would it be possible to use that shader over OR's "Real Lava" texture?

Kindest regards,
JC

OR already supports Nehrim, you must not convert anything.
Simply specify how the water should be using the water.ini settings per worldspace/region/cell.

As you can read in description, it reports:

GENERAL
4 times faster and lighter than OBGE
ENB compatibility
->>>>>>>>>> Native Nehrim support

Hello Alenet,

thank you very much for your response.

I know I am using it and it works as seen in my video. Sorry for the bad thumbnail, it was chosen by Youtube. :/
OR seems to use the "Real Lava" mod as base for the lava appearance, as shown in my video.
If I turn off OR (by removing the DLL) the lava looks somewhat way better (while the water get broken for sure).

Therefore I am wondering how I can get the lava appearance from without the "OblivionReloaded.dll" to work when using "OblivionReloaded.dll".

I've already tried to make a specific setting in the INI for that specific place, but it always uses the lava texture as shown in my video.

Please check out time code 1:03 in my video for visual support of my statement.

Kindest regards,
JC

I've found another example of Nehrim's lava shader in an unmodded game.


As seen here, Nehrim somehow enhances the lava by loading a real water shader that is made for lava appearance.



I tried to make OR's water to appear like lava, but I never achieved such results. Therefore I am wondering if it would be possible to integrate that shader in OR?
That would actually either be a step up for Oblivion as the static lava texture is... well not bad but in big rooms with lava, the pattern is repeating and it's pretty noticable.

So such a specific lava shader would be awesome.

Just_Chill wrote:I've found another example of Nehrim's lava shader in an unmodded game.

Ah, my bad. I just realized that hyperlinks don't work when you are logged off.

https://youtu.be/aN-1diYpoyE?t=818

Oooofff... Seems like I haven't played original Nehrim / Oblivion in ages, so I couldn't remember that there was actually a nice lava shader available by default.
The lava shader actually works properly in the base game. It's not Nehrim exclusive, as that is how the lava should look like.

Yet the problem with OR seems not to be unique:
https://www.loverslab.com/topic/68168-editing-water/


This is an issue since OR was OBGE with OBGE - Liquid Water, around 8 years ago:
https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/37825/?tab=images
It used that texture as cover already there, as shown in the user images. The lava pattern is repeating, even though "Real Lava" is a pretty good texture it looks weird if there are really big lava areas.

Now I also understand why Xerus either created a new water type which was used as "transparent" lava.
It doesn't show the lava texture, which OBGE - Liquid Water or OR use to hide the fact that it messes up the lava shader. :-(
Can be easily verified by this:

If you use the regular lava water type WITH Texture Blend at 0 and WITHOUT OblivionReloaded or OBGE it looks like I have recorded it above (the second part of the video).

If you use the regular lava water type WITH Texture Blend at 0, but WITH OR or OBGE, it just looks like water.
I know that we can use INI settings, but honestly, they'll never look like the original lava shader.
This is how Xerus' fix looks like:
https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/101/images/45555-1-1411508662.jpg
It's simply water painted orange, which is nowhere as immersive as the regular lava shader.

I wish this could get fixed somehow, but now that I am aware that his never got fixed in all these years, I doubt that it will happen. :-(

Just to be sure that this won't bug out anyone in the future:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MUCz1YwFbLZzhanH7

This is normal.
Making an INI entry to paint the water orange or using a Texture Blend setting of around 50 to load the lava texture is currently the only fix.
Even though a static texture is a bit of a downgrade compared to the original lava shader.
And orange water... Hah, paint it yellow and call it pee. XD
Hence nobody would want to swim in it, although the damage might rather be mental which is draining the player's health. XDDD

I have Nehrim and OR works correctly, so i dont know how to help.
Sorry.

I never said OR in general is broken, Alenet.

I just said that the lava rendering doesn't work since OBGE - Liquid Water.
This has nothing to do with Nehrim. It's a general issue of OblivionReloaded (which seems to have a moderinzed form or "Liquid Water" baked into it).
I've provided enough evidence about and it seems the issue is that ObliviovReloaded loads a regular water shader for lava too. Not the actual lava shader.

But I am happy to make another video to nail down the issue properly:



The reason why I recently discovered this, was because I always thought Oblivion uses a static lava texture by default. XD
I am playing with OBGE  and Liquid Water too long already as of thinking this static lava texture is normal.

It honestly would look far better, if OR would allow the regular lava shader to be used and the respective loaded texture be blended into it like in the video.

Basically the culprit is OR loading a regular water shader for lava.
Guess there isn't much which I or you can do otherwise it would have been fixed long ago, but in that case I highly doubt that "works correctly" can be said.
At least this surely is an issue and I haven't seen any record of OBGE - Liquid Water or OblivionReloaded, where the lava works properly.
It's always just this static texture without the actual lava shader it should get blended in.
And repainting the water shader... Everything rather sounds like a workaround.
I think that lava is using the water shader and not a lava shader like in the default Oblivion is surely an issue. At least according the visual downgrade made by a plugin for graphical enhancement.
I love the regular water and the way to make it unique for any dungeon, I love the godrays.
Yet in the case of lava it surely isn't a step up. :-(

But after all, it seems people have gotten used to this problem since 2012 with OBGE - Liquid Water, so I guess this should be taken AS-IS.

Hi @Just_Chill
I did take a look and while I didn't test the specific combination as you did I can tell that You are right, Liquid Water and OR Water are applying a static texture above the surface, without any blending.

The shader that affect this is WATER_11.pso. The original shader do a series of operation, and use some external parameters, including the one for the texture blend (at least it seems so by usage),
OR water (and Liquid Water) detect Lava by that value: if the value is above 0.4 then is lava. I think this is a complication, OR can be modified to pass the 3 types of water directly.

I also noticed something, Just by using OR even with the Water shader replacement disabled, the lava rendering is different, and more "watery". I don't know if this is a side effect of the Reflection map increase or by fixing an issue with the LocalHiResWater constructor , or soemthing else (and if this actually force the game by picking another shader for lava, or just changes some rendering values).
.
Truth be told I don't think if we should try to reimplement the blending in the calculation. Maybe with a joint effort and proper documenation of the parameters, it may be a nice experiment with possible good results.
For a more immediate results however, maybe we can try to add a distortion to the uv cordinates for the texture read. If done properly, it should add some kind of movements on the lava texture.
But as always, theory is a thing, practice is another

Game settings must match exactly the ones specified in the description, otherwise water (and lava) cannot work correctly.
A lava shader doesnt exists. The water and the lava are rendered in the same way, but the texture is different.
You must activate the removeunderwater option to make underwater working correctly and lava working correctly. The blend settings are set only if the removeunderwater option is enabled.

https://github.com/Alenett/TES-Reloaded-Source-NEW/blob/b945aa66fb847761b510271f821e8388557b959f/TESReloaded/Core/FormHook.cpp#L52
There are some "old" OR mechanisms to review but it is not a priority at the moment.

Hey @llde,
thanks for the confirmation.


However, as @Alenet recently posted, I may give this a try.
I really have turned off "RemoveUnderwater", as I thought it will somewhat remove some of OR's underwater effects.
As the name of that setting doesn't really tell what it is about. All other settings (INI / Game Settings) are set as stated on the download page.

The reason for the assumption about "RemoveUnderwater" was, that these settings and their benefits are NOT mentioned in "OblivionReloaded.html".
Furthermore, I recommend to add the INI and Game Settings required for OR to work properly also into the "OblivionReloaded.html".
RTFM does only fit it the manual has a proper documentation about all the available settings.

I'll try again today after work, with this option enabled and record the results.

Hello,
I've set "RemoveUnderwater = 1", yet the lava doesn't look different. Really wished I could record some neat looking lava.

The water looks as good as always, so I leave it at 1.
Even though I still would recommend to add a quick summary about that setting and it's benefits to the OblivionReloaded.html.


@llde
I guess that means there is currently no solution for this.
I'll try not to think too much about this hovering texture then, but thank you very much for the detailed response.
Unfortunately I have no idea about shader programming, but I am happy that you had some possibilities in your mind.
I'll continue to mutilate the Water.INI for specific dungeons to look like... well pumpkin compote at least. ^^

Just_Chill wrote:Hello,
I've set "RemoveUnderwater = 1", yet the lava doesn't look different. Really wished I could record some neat looking lava.

The water looks as good as always, so I leave it at 1.
Even though I still would recommend to add a quick summary about that setting and it's benefits to the OblivionReloaded.html.


@llde
I guess that means there is currently no solution for this.
I'll try not to think too much about this hovering texture then, but thank you very much for the detailed response.
Unfortunately I have no idea about shader programming, but I am happy that you had some possibilities in your mind.
I'll continue to mutilate the Water.INI for specific dungeons to look like... well pumpkin compote at least. ^^

Its possible to use vanilla sheder only for lava, I will try to add this. And waterlence also look funny when player escape from lava))

Hey there @GBR ,

thank you so much for your response.
You've already gave me hope about this issue when you said you'll look into it in your Oblivion Reloaded Lite.
I just hope that if you find a fix it will be also taken into OR itself, as this surely is an improvement for both mods.

I mean the water looks really awesome and it is nice to be able to finally change the color, just according the EditorID of the location.
Original "OBGE - Liquid Water" required to create an ini for each different cell and the INIs had to be named after the cell name.
YES, the CELL NAME!
I mean that's highly incompatible between different language versions!
OR fixes that by using the EditorID.

Yet having good looking water, but actively downgrading your lava appearance is still something that might bug people.
IMHO a plugin for graphical (optionally also gameplay) enhancements, should not downgrade the graphics of some aspect in the game.

Therefore I am really looking forward to any enhancements in that regard.

Cheers